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GIP!

Please admire my new icon, in honor of the Veronica Mars finale. Only 51 minutes to go! I don't really think Butters did it, though. Probably. I've just been telling everyone that as a joke and I think it's awesome that there's actually an icon for it. My best (completely unspoiled) guess is either Beaver or Jackie. Or possibly Mr. Manning. There's something up with that man--mark my words.

Gilmore Girls is on right now, and yet I find that I don't care a bit. And if the WB thinks I'm going to miss the first two minutes of Veronica Mars for the last two crappy minutes of Gilmore Girls, they are sadly delusional.

Comments

( 38 comments — Leave a comment )
dutch38
May. 10th, 2006 01:36 am (UTC)
So, a bus crashed? Hmmm.
hannasus
May. 10th, 2006 02:52 am (UTC)
You'll see, my dear. ;)
franlock
May. 10th, 2006 01:44 am (UTC)
I'm excited too! We cancelled are Gilmore Girls recording too for Veronica Mars! No way is stupid April getting in the way of me figuring out the secrets of the bus crash!
alanao
May. 10th, 2006 02:05 am (UTC)
GG didn't go over 8pm hear. But it was kind of lame. VM though: FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!

(I hope the added exclamation points tell you how fantastic I thought it was.)
alanao
May. 10th, 2006 02:06 am (UTC)
Um, and when I say "hear" you know I mean "here".
mikijean
May. 10th, 2006 04:46 pm (UTC)
You were excited--how could you be expected to control your homophones under such conditions? Of course, VM rarely controls their homophones, what with Logan and Weevil always running around and...wait a minute.

I'll go back to my bitter corner now. ;)
alanao
May. 10th, 2006 09:06 pm (UTC)
Hee hee. So what's your deal that you're upset? I'm sorry, but I have a hard time keeping track of everyone's fannish leanings, because I can't even control the use of my homophones.

Logan/Weevil: OTP, btw.
mikijean
May. 10th, 2006 09:17 pm (UTC)
I could get behind Logan/Weevil (er...so to speak), except I'm NEVER SHIPPING AGAIN. Did you get enough Weevil for your tastes, or were there other things that made you happy?

I was far too attached to Cassidy and Mac, and while I'd gotten on board the idea of Cassidy meeting a bitter end after being revealed as the desperate bus bomber, I feel like they overreached by making him responsible for all evil (going back to Veronica's rape is just nonsensical). What, he offered Adam the apple? Stole the crown jewels? Rode a tank and held a general's rank? If they'd pulled back just a touch, it would have been absolutely crushing (I thought the end of the rooftop/going down to Mac was about perfect), but by overreaching the did weird things to the character and the season and I am full of the bitter.

I'm getting better, though. ;)
alanao
May. 11th, 2006 03:59 am (UTC)
I think Veronica/Keith are the true (platonic) OTP. There wasn't enough Weevil, I feel bad for him, especially cause he actually didn't do it this time.

I agree with you on the Cassidy stuff, I mean, there was a bit of a build up to Beav's emotional problems. We've seen Dick torture him and his father disappeared and then the molestation stuff; but really, half of that confrontation scene with Veronica was this Expository Bullshit that NEVER EVER was even hinted at during the season. Like Veronica really worked it all out in her head in the hour she had. And the Very Dramatic 'Beav's a Bad Guy' revelation when he's shirtless was amusing.

I get where you're coming from but I still loved that it was so out of left field that I was geniunely shocked.
mikijean
May. 11th, 2006 04:37 pm (UTC)
By the way, alanao and I are spoilerific down here--beware!
I so agree with you on Keith--he's by far my favorite character because he's the only person in the entire unincorporated town of Neptune who *takes care of a child*. Actually, Veronica and Cassidy had a lot of similar problems and could have taken similar paths. The big difference between them? Veronica had Keith. OTP (platonic!!), indeed. I think I might be ready for that good cry now.

I'm slowly coming to terms with some of the stuff I had problems with, but I completely agree with you on the Scooby Doo expository crap. That and the trying to pin *everything that ever happened* on Cassidy (he ate the Lindbergh baby!), which pushes the characterization past the groundwork they laid (badly damaged) to places they hadn't done prep work for (oozing with evil), are things I probably won't ever come to terms with. So I'm going to ignore them and skip right to the good stuff, because there was a lot of stuff that *really* worked. Like Woody throwing a deer head at Keith, for example. ;)
alanao
May. 11th, 2006 07:17 pm (UTC)
Sorry if we spoiled you!
It's almost like Rob Thomas and the writers sat in the room and went "Okay, who is everyone's favorite kid?" "The Beav." "Okay, then, the Beav did it. All of it. Killed Lilly and everything."

I love Keith so so much, probably cause of my own Daddy issues which we obviously won't get into, but I think he should have his own little show on the side "Keith Mars Invetigates" or something (oh, I hope you've seen the Office and get that reference). The deer head was classic, most people would have brought a gun or something with them (a giant freezer perhaps to stick the pesky detective into, a la Haaron), but not Ol' Woody the perv.
mikijean
May. 11th, 2006 09:53 pm (UTC)
If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
"Keith Mars Investigates"--heeeeee! Since I'm never getting my "Beaver, Weevil, and Mac" spinoff now...

I do wonder to what extent pinning everything under the sun on Cassidy (Beaver killed the radio star!) had to do with trying to convince people he was "bad" enough to have crashed the bus (which is my problem with it--it's the distinction between "desperate enough to be bad" and "bad enough to be desperate") and to what extent it had to do with tying up every possible loose end before moving to a new network, a college setting, and a fresh start. We wonders...I'm still telling myself they're going to retcon the retcon and note that just because Veronica says something on the roof of the Neptune Grande doesn't mean it's true.

You bring up a really good point about Keith--he's a great, great stand-in for dads both for people who really, really want one they didn't have and for people who really, really love the one they had--or both at the same time (I'm in one of those categories, too). Although I totally buy that Neptune is the noiriest town in the noiry corner of Noirdom, it's also important to set Keith up as a foil to every other adult in town. Heck, even Alicia, who tries to take good care of her kids, has shown remarkably bad judgment on more than one occasion. I believe that Principal Clemmons (sniff! Stay cool, Mr. C.) and Counselor Show Killer want to help, but they're just overwhelmed. Is there *any* other trustworthy parental figure in Neptune besides Keith? I guess the Mackenzies try...
hannasus
May. 11th, 2006 10:02 pm (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
Aw, your poor spin-off. *sniff*

You're totally right about the parent thing, although I'd say both the Mackenzies and the Sinclairs are both doing pretty darn well with a horrible situation that is not of their own making.

Also, and here's a controversial one... Jake Kane. He's always been shown as supportive and concerned for Duncan. Maybe he could stand up to his shrewish wife a little more, but he's obviously trying. And--here's the biggie--in face of the loss of one child, he did what he deemed necessary, no matter how repugnant, to save the other child. It turned out to be the wrong choice, but it was done out of love and desire to protect Duncan.

Of course, the inexplicable and ill-explained disinterest of the Kanes in their grandchild this season contradicts this, but I don't count that because I think it's just an example of sloppy, inconsistent writin.
alanao
May. 11th, 2006 10:27 pm (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
I've always dismissed the Kanes. Don't know why. I guess I just thought of Jake as the guy who was always always at work, I imagine at some point he worked pretty hard to discover whatever it was he did (wi-fi, a chip of some sort, I can't remember) and then that leaves the kids with She-Devil Kane, which explains Lilly's behaviour.

The thing I don't get and I can't remember it being explained was why they left Duncan in Neptune when they went to Aspen? After everything that happened and all the lengths Jake went to to protect Duncan, why not take him somewhere to get his brain fixed or something?
hannasus
May. 11th, 2006 10:39 pm (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
I think Duncan said something about not wanting to change schools for his senior year. *shrug*

The Kanes' absence this season has always been ill-explained. I don't buy them just leaving Duncan on his own that way. I don't buy them not caring about or wanting their grandchild, either. And I certainly don't buy them not hiring a lawyer to bitch-slap Meg's parents, who had zero parental rights where that baby was concerned, instead of letting Duncan run off to Australia. WTF. Ever.
mikijean
May. 11th, 2006 10:56 pm (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
The Kanes' absence this season has always been ill-explained.

I also don't buy them not showing up at the trial of the man who killed their daughter with an ashtray.
alanao
May. 11th, 2006 11:14 pm (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
I've very "WTFever the Kanes had their story and now it's inconvienent for them to be around, so how about maybe stupid Duncan stupid goes away and stupid leaves Veronica alone forever and ever, cause he's stupid. And boring" about the whole thing.
mikijean
May. 11th, 2006 10:54 pm (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
Side note: I just can't bring myself to use any of my many fun Dick icons. Too soon? Sigh.

I guess if my beloved spin-off became a half-hour sitcom, they could have Beaver there from beyoooooond the graaaaave. Also, the Lovematic Grandpa. And every episode could reveal another great crime Beaver was responsible for--Epsiode 17: Beaver killed Natalie Holloway. Episode 22: Beaver took the first shot at Fort Sumter. And Weevil would have to pretend to be gay so Mrs. Mackenzie would let them live together. Wow--the bitter runs deep.

I'd say both the Mackenzies and the Sinclairs are both doing pretty darn well with a horrible situation that is not of their own making.

I am *fascinated* by the Sinclairs and would love to see them revisited if Tina Majorino becomes a regular (maybe they could come to one of Mac's many therapy sessions). On the one hand, they seem to be really nice people and the little sister seems okay. On the other hand--my heck, Madison. (side note: is there a "Madison Crashed the Bus!" icon?) Even if you buy the nature over nurture thing (which I don't entirely), the Mackenzies seem like nice enough people--just ill-matched to the daughter they brought home. So what's up with the Sinclairs that created Madison?

Also, and here's a controversial one... Jake Kane.

That's innnnnteresting. One of my favorite scenes in S1 is the contrast between Jake and Celeste at the fountain dedication. I buy that he genuinely loves his kids, and I wonder if they make him softer than Celeste because of his connection to Lianne. Maybe he falls in the Alicia category--really cares and tries, but makes some gigantically bad choices that, in true noir fashion, end in tragedy later--because the whole "we had our security guy ice your sister's body and lied to everyone, destroying your Not!Sister's life, to prooooteeeeect you, honey" is a doozy.

Does this mean that Abel Koontz was one of the best parents in town? *Yikes.*
alanao
May. 11th, 2006 11:23 pm (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
Beaver's hid all the WMDs in Iraq. Beav shot Cheney's hunting pal in the face. Beaver wrote season 5 of the West Wing.

That would be the best show ever. Especially with Lovematic Grandpa.
mikijean
May. 11th, 2006 11:56 pm (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
I am so completely on board Beaver having shot Harry Whittington. And possibly bugging my phone without a warrant.

Are you familiar with the Television Without Pity thread on this? Titled, bless them, "Beaver Created The Bird Flu!: The Other Dastardly Deeds of Cassidy Casablancas".

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3140299

Sus pointed out the brilliant "Beaver sprays Aqua Net directly towards the sky, just to speed up Global Warming." I'm partial to "Beaver split up Pangea," and "Beaver got Limp Bizkit a album deal."

Oh! I just saw "While he was having a good day on the meds, Beaver put the bomp In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp...but we wouldn't advise shaking his hand for it."


alanao
May. 12th, 2006 12:03 am (UTC)
Re: If there was spoiling, it was my fault--don't blame alanao!
Ha! I've spent several years trying to swear off TWoP cause of some of their crazy mods (Aaron Sorkin has this story about it, it's good) and a few really bad recappers (Jacob doing Doctor Who makes me want to punch him in the face, like I want to punch Madison in the face.) BUT... this stuff is genius. Beaver is melting the polar ice caps, AND (cause I'm Canadian) Beaver clubs baby seals.
alanao
May. 11th, 2006 10:16 pm (UTC)
spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
Beaver killed the radio star!!! I'm changing my lj name to that now. Spoilers be damned.

I'm still fuzzy on his reasoning for blowing up the bus, beyond killing Capt'n Krunk and the other guy whose backstory I don't remember besides being touched in his special places by Steve Guttenberg. He didn't want them to reveal what happened? Why? To save himself the misery of being THAT kid for the rest of his life? Or something with Phoenix Land Trust? (which doesn't make sense cause if Goodman was out of office there wouldn't have been incorporation and Beav would have made his money anyway.) And does Beav's upbringing (product of divorce, lots of money, father who chooses himself over you) really constitute a kid that goes THAT BAD? Probably not cause Dick's just a giant dick and unrealistically so. So maybe, hopefully, Beav didn't really kill Curly and maybe Duncan actually had an STD (it quite possible that Duncan played for the Sharks the year before Beav did) and Beav was just a minimal evil genius who likes to steal Mac's clothes.

I'm curious about the role that Keith will play next year. I will imagine there will be less parental involvement all around. I do hope that Keith spends most of his time trying to undermine Lamb and maybe try to off Vinnie so he doesn't have to share that reward money. I had so hoped that Lamb would be on the plane.

The Mackenzies always seemed sweet and Madison's (or Mac's) mom as well, I was hoping they'd revisit that story or maybe she'd pay for Mac's university to make up for her scary blonde child.
hannasus
May. 11th, 2006 10:30 pm (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
I just came up with a theory today about next season. The cliffhanger... Kendell's briefcase? I think she's going to blackmail Keith by threatening to implicate him in Aaron's murder. 'Cause it's the only thing I can imagine that would make him stand up V at the airport like that. And who has an alibi for Aaron's murder? Not Keith.

Or Logan or Veronica, for that matter, except each other, and we've already seen how well they go over on the stand. Yep, next season is going to be all about Keith and/or Veronica and/or Logan being accused of Aaron's murder. Which will keep Keith involved in the show even after V's in college, and create tension for her and Logan, while keeping him around even if they break up and he doesn't go to college.
alanao
May. 11th, 2006 11:21 pm (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
But... But... don't say that. I think Keith's alibi is pretty solid because he drove back to Neptune from outside Reno, and while I don't exactly know where Reno is in relation to LV, I'm sure it takes awhile.

I think that next season will have something to do with Weevil and the Fitzpatricks, cause I really think the whole introduction of the Fitzpatricks wasn't worth all the effort if they're not going to be important down the line. And Kendall's basically one of them.

I really need to get a VM icon on here. (We can just pretend that Rose is VM and the Doctor is still super hot and British.)
mikijean
May. 11th, 2006 11:46 pm (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
Oooohhhh. That's...cold. What did CW leave behind after the shooting? It was so dark and I was so...dark that I couldn't really make it out. Is there some way Kendall could feel that she *and* Logan are being implicated (for some reason, before the Kendall at the lawyer scene, I though whatever Clarence did was meant to implicate her. Or was she working for Duncan and let Clarence in? I'm confused. In a good way.)? I guess Keith is kind of obliged to defend Logan if he's Veronica's boyfriend now. How many times can Logan be indicted for murder before one sticks?

I, for one, will die laughing if it turns out Logan or Veronica would have been better off if Cassidy had shot them on the roof--they'd have an alibi for the time of Aaron's murder!
hannasus
May. 12th, 2006 12:03 am (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
I could be mistaken, but I thought CW was taking off the tape (or cap or whatever) he'd covered the lens of the security camera with. Meaning the security cameras will not help the police identify the killer, although they may or not (depending on how much Kendall was actually collaborating with CW) reveal Kendall as Aaron's special lady friend visitor that night.

I'm guessing CW was saavy enough not leave anything behind that could possibly tie back to him or any of the Kanes. And who else with a motive to kill Aaron would have the leet skillz necessary to cover his tracks so well? Daddy of the Year Keith Mars. Which I'm sure will be Lamb's very first thought.

Of course, if you start thinking about it, where's the proof that Beaver was the bus bomber? Who's to say it was a suicide other than Logan and Veronica? There's a potential for possible nasty legal complications concerning the Tragic End of Cassidy Casablancas if anyone wants to make trouble for them next season.

Also, Beaver was Patient Zero.
mikijean
May. 12th, 2006 12:31 am (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
Also, Beaver was Patient Zero.

Of chlamydia. I love you guys so much.

I like the idea of Lamb immediately thinking of super-PI Keith Mars as a potential Aaron-killer (hey, it can't be Vinnie Van Lowe--he's in jail). That incorporates Keith, Lamb (he has to be around for me to hate!), and the love of my life, Cliff. I'm wondering what Kendall has to gain from blackmailing Keith, though--V's right that he doesn't carry much cash. I do wonder if she was working with Duncan...playing both sides of the con. Who else has a motive to kill Aaron? Duncan and the various surviving Kanes. Veronica. Keith. Logan. Maybe Trina. Weevil, but no one else would really know it, and he's got an alibi. Hmmm.

There's a potential for possible nasty legal complications concerning the Tragic End of Cassidy Casablancas if anyone wants to make trouble for them next season.

Ooh. What evidence do they actually have? 1) Logan and Veronica's testimony. Well, that doesn't do much good, if Aaron's trial is any indication. 2) Cassidy played on a Little League team Woody Goodman coached. Even if everyone now believes Woody molested boys (why? Because of the tape? How do they know that's what the boys meant or even that they weren't paid to do it?), how to know for sure that Cassidy was the third victim? He's dead. Peter's dead. Marcos is dead. Lucky is dead. Woody is dead. Similarly, 3) Cassidy took French. Big deal. So did lots of other people. 4) Cassidy bought property that would be worthless if incorporation went through. Now you're getting somewhere, because you could probably prove that he was the only person who stood to benefit from killing incorporation who was taking French at Neptune High *and* knew Marcos and Peter. But even if that proves blackmail, it doesn't prove he killed anyone, and since it doesn't prove the kids were actually molested--it could have been a "prank" designed solely to get Woody to stop incorporation--it doesn't necessarily provide compelling evidence for a suicide. And even if a jury bought blackmail, it doesn't necessarily follow that he's a murderer, *Veronica*. 5) Cassidy knew something about explosives. Hart can testify to that, but the only person who could say, "I gave him enough to blow up a bus, a car, and a plane" is dead. Half the people in Neptune knew something about explosives.

So: we know he took French, knew Peter, Marcos, and Woody, had a basic familiarity with explosives, and bought some property. The rest of it is really problematic--I honestly don't think Dick even understands that the limo wasn't his idea, for example. What if he was never diagnosed with chlamydia? There would be no record of it (what, you think Kendall was scheduling annual checkups for the boys? Hmmm--would they need an exam to get the life insurance policy?) to link to Veronica's claim. There's probably a gun with his fingerprints on it on the roof, but it's got V's on it, too, and if someone was trying to shove him off a roof, maybe he needed a gun in the first place. Leaving Mac in the hotel room naked is weird, but I can't imagine that Mac wouldn't eventually let slip their sexual troubles (which an honest Veronica would have to verify had been ongoing)--humiliated teenage boys have done worse.

Season 3: Dick wants his insurance money.
hannasus
May. 12th, 2006 01:13 am (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
I'm wondering what Kendall has to gain from blackmailing Keith, though

Well, one must presume that her fingerprints and various bodily fluids (ewww) are all over that crime scene. Which makes her a likely candidate for Suspect Number One, a fact that must surely have occured to her. She could have threatened to plant and/or give evidence implicating Keith unless he helped get her off.

My impression is that Kendall was working for CW, but that's not necessarily true. It's entirely possible she was just seducing Aaron because he seemed like a good mark what with being rich and all, and was utterly surprised to find his brains spattered all over the TV when she got out of the shower. In which case she's in a bad position and bound to get desperate.

If she was working for CW, how much was he willing to protect her? Did he hide her from the security cameras? Wipe down the suite to remove her fingerprints? Dispose of the condom (again ewwww)? Or is he willing to throw her to the wolves, for his own, possibly nefarious or maybe just mercenary reasons? Maybe he's *planning* to set her up as the scapegoat.

It all has the potential to be very interesting and ensure that a lot interesting characters (Marry me, Cliff!) have a reason to hang around next season.

Also, Beaver fixed the 2000 election *and* planted the stain on Monica's blue dress.
mikijean
May. 11th, 2006 11:41 pm (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
Beaver was also at Chappaquiddick. I'm just sayin'.

My understanding, some of it probably fanwanked, is that Cassidy did indeed blow up the bus to prevent Marcos and Peter from accusing Woody because he was so desperate to keep his abuse a secret (it may also have the added bonus of getting rid of Bettina for Dick and Veronica if he actually raped her. And also Miss Dumas, because she is descended from Jesus Christ Himself and Beaver is a Knight Templar). I buy that, I really do, not only because of the specifics of his home life and 09er life but because I don't think it's that uncommon for abuse victims to think they'd rather die than have anyone know what happened to them (or, in this, to kill). I'm on board with this scenario.

All of the Phoenix Land Trust stuff comes later and is related only by the need for blackmail and the availability of blackmail material (and to lay in clues pointing to the killer). After Dick Sr.'s demise (which Cassidy *did not cause* because that's not about being desperate and crazy, even if he did point out the bag switch to Veronica, damn it!), he starts up the PLT not only to be able to support himself/invest in his future but to show what he can do (and, by all accounts, he's pretty good at it). He enlists Kendall's help and uses his entire trust ("we're out of capital, and that's bad") getting great deals in the south part of town. Then Mr. Pope (I'll miss you--stay cool, Mr. P.!) explains the incorporation issue and Cassidy looks like he's going to run out of FBLA and throw up on Carrie Bishop's shoes again. My read on it was that the penny's just dropped at that very moment explaining *why* he's getting great deals in the south end of town (doesn't Mr. Pope say something about unloading non-incorp. land to "suckers" before it becomes incorporated?). And that's when he (desperate!) hatches the blackmail scheme--kill incorporation or else...The Beav will lose everything. Woody takes the blackmail seriously and sets up the drunk staffer in the hotel thing, throwing the election and killing incorporation, thus saving Cassidy.

This was actually one of my biggest hurdles in believing before the ep that he was also the bus crasher--I could buy the kid so desperate to keep the secret that he killed 8 people *or* the kid who was so desperate about the real estate thing that he was willing to resort to blackmail, but I was having trouble reconciling both being true at the same time. I've since decided that since he now has no father as breadwinner as well as no father as father, no mother to speak of, no expectation of help from Kendall, and no expectation of Dick being able to fix anything, if he loses his entire trust he doesn't even have money to use as protection. That's desperate enough for me.

Of course, if they come back around and say that Cassidy had planned all along to get Woody into power and *then* blackmail him into introducing incorporation so he could buy the land cheap and then double super secret blackmail him into killing incorporation so he could sell high, I quit. That will be the ep when they also show that Beaver gave the Aztecs smallpox. Even if Rob Thomas calls my house and says so, I refuse to believe he engineered Woody's initial election or Dick Sr.'s demise (although I think they want us to believe the latter). I'm still on the fence about the rape.

And I've just this second realized that the last mention we have of things related to Cassidy in this ep is the lawyer telling Kendall to congratulate Dick Sr. for betting against incorporation. The kid cannot win.
alanao
May. 12th, 2006 12:17 am (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
Your explaination does actually clarify things for me and gets at what I had been thinking about for awhile (It was pretty obvious that Beav was gonna be involved somehow with Woody because of Incorporation and the land trust), I just couldn't wrap my head around it after only seeing the eps once.

If there are claims of Beaver being a mastermind from years ago and having this plan from anywhere before September I call bullshit on Rob Thomas. Am I wrong in assuming that he hired Veronica to out Kendall's skeeziness not to out his father's dirty dealings? Cause that's what I'd like to believe.

Oh, by the way, Beaver killed Albus Dumbledore and his real name is actually "Rosebud".
mikijean
May. 12th, 2006 01:02 am (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
Here's a link to the interview where Rob Thomas claims they knew exactly what was up with Cassidy from the very beginning, although they did not originally intend to have him be Veronica's rapist (which is why there are so many holes in that story now, *Rob*).

http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2006/05/veronica-mars-whodunnit.html

I love Cheatty Cheatty Bang Bang (the ep where Cassidy asks Veronica for help with Kendall), so it's annoying that they're apparently trying to retcon it, too. "Ha! We *wanted* you to think he was asking for help with Kendall--he was trying to bring down his dad! His dad, who didn't take him to the gun range and humiliated him in front of Kendall only the episode before!" This is why the Dick Sr. accusation bothers me even more than the rape accusation: it changes Cassidy's motives from being desperate to being vengeful. "But he had gotten away with the bus crash and was starting to feel confident in his growing powers of eeeeeeeviiiiil!" Then show me that on screen. Which you can't do because you can't give away the killer. "But he pointed out the bag switch to Veronica! He knew!" Or he was smart. And Veronica was rushed and saw him as easy money.

To me, however, the most compelling evidence is the last scene with Dick Sr. hightailing it to the helicopter ("Shred it. Shred it." The casting on this show is so amazingly good). The boss is losing it and screaming about shredding; the SEC is raiding. Nobody cares about the boss' kid right now. And yet he *still* looks like Carrie Bishop is about to lose yet another pair of shoes. This is a huge sticking point to me about both this and the rape accusation--we're supposed to believe that Cassidy Casablancas, of all people, is the greatest actor in Neptune history? I know that seems like a low bar with the Echolls clan around and all, but I hear that Mars girl is pretty sharp. He hung around Nancy Drew, whom he raped, all year but then looked like he was going to hurl whenever he wasn't around her? Meh.

Also? Beaver broke into the Watergate Hotel. Twice. This last time with poker chips and hookers.
alanao
May. 12th, 2006 02:10 am (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
All I can say: WORD!

It kind of reeks of Damon Lindleloff doing his Lost podcasts after J.J. Abrams has abandoned him for CrazyCruise going "No, no, no, really, I don't care what 4 fired writers say we really sit down in the room and plan out EIGHT seasons of this show and we know EVERYTHING". It's lies, it's all lies. Never trust a showrunner unless it's Shonda Rimes or Tommy Schlamme.

The only other thing to say besides WORD is screenwriting 101: SHOW, don't TELL!!!

Beaver switched Mac & Madison at birth.
mikijean
May. 12th, 2006 04:30 pm (UTC)
Re: spoiling, spoiling, spoiling
:whispering:

Moved our discussion into a new post so the threading wouldn't keep putting one word per line. Meet you there!

:not whispering:

Huh--I wonder if Beaver regretted switching Madison and Mac at birth once he decided to date Mac? She *did* have a better car, though.
mikijean
May. 12th, 2006 04:28 pm (UTC)
More spoilerama
(moving the previous conversation into a new comment because the threading, while convenient, is now literally putting one word per line)

I could be mistaken, but I thought CW was taking off the tape (or cap or whatever) he'd covered the lens of the security camera with.

I managed to suck it up and watch this last night (seriously, for all my complaining and fanwanking, what they get right they get so right that I'm still, a couple of days later, struggling to recover), and you're 100% right on this. I thought I saw a puddy tat...er, Clarence leaving something in the room, but that was totally me hallucinating to a Gravenhurt cover (the music on this show is almost as amazingly good as the casting).

Well, one must presume that her fingerprints and various bodily fluids (ewww) are all over that crime scene. Which makes her a likely candidate for Suspect Number One, a fact that must surely have occured to her.

As an aside: word to the ew. You know, one of the things that came up during the season was underestimating Kendall--maybe *she* planted the stain on Monica Lewinsky's blue dress.

I'm really quite in love with this explanation--but what does she have to use against Keith? His reaction to whatever is in that briefcase seemed (to me--thoughts?) to be equal parts intrigue and repulsion--what is it? Would it have to be something she had on Keith (to blackmail him into helping her), including but not limited to potentially being able to implicate him (or V) in Aaron Echolls' death? Or could it be something he *wants*--does she have dirt that could bring down the entire Fitzpatrick operation? If she was working both sides of the con with Duncan (while keeping the option of Aaron as sugar daddy open), how much is the bounty on the baby daddy? What else could he want enough to ditch Veronica at the airport? Innnnteresting.

It kind of reeks of Damon Lindleloff doing his Lost podcasts after J.J. Abrams has abandoned him for CrazyCruise going "No, no, no, really, I don't care what 4 fired writers say we really sit down in the room and plan out EIGHT seasons of this show and we know EVERYTHING". It's lies, it's all lies.

Guh! Bite your tongue. The Curse of the Island has already come down on VM's ratings--don't bring it on the show itself! ;)

I really do buy that they knew they wanted him as the bus bomber and blackmailer--the pieces are all there. I think the plot clues for a couple of other things (the bag switch in Cheatty Cheatty; the inclusion of Curly) are there, although I don't think they work very well emotionally and lead to the overreach problem. The one thing we actually saw him do was blow up Woody's plane (hmmm--I don't watch CSI or Bones--can they get shards of explosive from a disintegrated plane like that they could match to what was in Woody's car or Driver Ed? There goes Dick's chance of getting the insurance money. Or, if he hires Aaron's lawyer to argue that Cassidy blew up everything and that's *why* that slutty Veronica Mars and one of her many boyfriends threw him off the roof, would the insurance company have to pay out even if everyone agreed he was the bomber? Interesting.) They admittedly didn't think of him as the rapist--has Lindelof every admitted to anything? Maybe that's the difference between them.

I'll say it right now--if they go back and make it a plot point that some of the things Veronica accused Cassidy of were not actually correct (they have the wiggle room--"My guess? You got the explosives from your dad's mechanic..." Well--you guessed wrong, Pumpkin. Etc.) and claim they had *that* planned all along? Fixing both the emotional cracks in it (Cassidy's motives never were about vengeance, etc.) and the plot cracks (false accusations come from Scooby-esque detective work)? I'll bow before their greatness and bake them snickerdoodles. For real. I don't expect them to do that, both because I don't think they're Tommy Schlamme (although they are excellent most of the time) and because I think they *wanted* to pin everything on Beaver to clean the slate for college life in S3--but I'd be *mightily* impressed and move them into the Schlamme category if they did it.

Also, Beaver took an axe and gave Lizzie Borden's parents 40 whacks.
hannasus
May. 13th, 2006 12:46 am (UTC)
Re: More spoilerama
(the music on this show is almost as amazingly good as the casting)

I know! A Kinks cover and a Paul Westerberg song? Heaven.

I'm thinking that whatever made Daddy Mars ditch his much-anticipated trip to NY with V musta been pretty damn big. It's gotta be more than just a paycheck. It's gotta be something that either threatens the life or limb of someone they care about, or enough money to seriously change their entire quality of life.

Kendall's a really fun and fascinating character--there are almost an unlimited number of places you could take her. I can't wait to see how it plays out (assuming--knock on wood!--that the show comes back, with Charisma).

I really don't want Cassidy (Heck, where did that come from? What happened to my Beaver?) to have orchestrated Big Dick's fall. It's so much more interesting if he was actually trying to help his dad and craving the approval and attention he'd been denied. And you're totally right about the look on his face during the "Burn it! Shred it!" scene. No one was paying attention to him, so why does he look so upset unless he actually is upset? Either he was actually upset or it's another dishonest "Sharks pitching sucks" feint, and I call a foul on the play.

Beaver drove Lianne Mars to drink and stole Veronica's college money.

You know, every time I look at a picture of now I think, "Man, was that kid always so shady looking?"
alanao
May. 13th, 2006 03:09 pm (UTC)
Re: More spoilerama
What I don't understand is his relationship with Mac? Was it all a big show? Why did he bother getting back together with her if he was just going to fail to 'perform' as it were and then steal all her stuff and pretend to shoot her?

I don't get that.

I don't think I can speak to the premeditativeness of Beav's actions as they go back much too far for me to remember and I think I'm just gonna accept it and hope there's another season to look forward to. But I still don't like Kendall.
mikijean
May. 13th, 2006 08:02 pm (UTC)
Re: More spoilerama
Noted: could be major fanwanking here. I have to believe the relationship with Mac is real. It doesn't make any sense plotwise if he doesn't care about Mac. Why go out with her at all? Phoenix Land Trust? He was paying her to do that stuff in the first place; why make the relationship anything other than a business one? If he's looking to prove his masculinity in 09er fashion, why Mac? He probably took more grief from Dick over her than if he'd just bounced around from one weak-willed cheerleader to another. Mac could have tutored Weevil to graduation tragedy on her own.

In addition, it pushes things forward if the relationship is genuine. Would we have been half as invested in Cassidy if we hadn't seen the relationship with Mac? :pleads guilty: It was the Algebra Tutoring of Young Love that convinced me he was a dead man--cute couples don't win in noir. And yet I begged--they win. Believing that they have a genuine relationship that includes some serious sexual problems is the tipping point of the season in terms of leading us to the entire Woody Goodman motive, which leads us to the blackmail, the bus bombing, and *maybe* the rape (I am neither kidding nor meaning to toot my own horn when I say that half an hour after the ghastly breakup in Plan B, I knew the incorporation solution--it all followed neatly from the question of why the problem with Mac existed). If he doesn't actually care about Mac, why not just lie and tell her that living with Dicks Sr. and Jr. has convinced him that waiting is a good idea? But we have to believe that he's willing--just unable. And we have to buy that he genuinely likes Mac to make that work.

Finally, I *totally* buy the idea that he believed he and Mac would...be successful (ahem!) at the graduation party--Woody is gone, which saves everything, and if anyone would believe that wealthy adults can go missing and remain unfound, it would be a Casablancas kid; the liquid courage is kicking in. But Corny's announcement leads directly to the bedroom disaster that follows, which brings him to the conclusion, finally, that he will never be normal. This hinges on the idea that he *wants* to be normal (the entire motive for the bus crash) and that Mac represents that to him. I'm really intrigued by the question of what might have happened if they'd never been intercepted by Corny. Would the tryst with Mac have been more successful? Would he have felt in control of enough pieces to be able to play Veronica? She really has no hard evidence on the bus crash, Curly, or the rape.

As to the sheets: because I buy into both the relationship with Mac and the molestation storyline, I can believe that he took the linens and everything else to protect Mac--to keep her in that room. "She's in a better place"? Anywhere is better than the Rooftop of Doom (although I think that line exists to throw off both Veronica and the audience--if V is caught up in the horror of thinking Mac is dead, maybe she'll be off her game). He doesn't want Mac dead, so he takes the sheets, hoping to dispose of Veronica and pin it on Aaron Echolls and then return and patch things up with Mac and be normal. Of course, he doesn't know that Aaron Echolls is about to have the best alibi ever, but that's classic noir--continuing to make worse and worse choices trying to cover up previous bad choices until everything comes undone.

How he intends to explain this to Mac is entirely beyond me (maybe I'm wrong about that; he's written off the ability to have a normal relationship with her after the latest sexual failure and just hopes to keep her safe, get rid of Veronica cleanly, and then use the naked weirdness as a final and complete break with Mac. Dunno.) It doesn't bother me so much, though, because I buy that Corny's news/the failure with Mac is the last straw in his unspooling, and that what caused his shame in the first place is exactly the kind of thing that's going to play into a weird desire to get rid of the sheets.

So I totally buy into the relationship with Mac as real and believe this is one of the things they actually set up really well, although it doesn't change the fact that Beaver stole credit card applications from the Echolls house so he could romance Paris Hilton and tried to pin it on Weevil.
mikijean
May. 13th, 2006 07:08 pm (UTC)
Re: More spoilerama
I really don't want Cassidy (Heck, where did that come from? What happened to my Beaver?)

:blinks: :considers only half the question: I *knew* you'd succumb eventually. ;) It just feels...disrespectful to use "Beaver" now. Which I guess is a chunk of the characterization they were laying in anyway (isn't that just about the second thing we ever hear coming out of the kid's mouth, all the way back in M.A.D.?), so kudos to them--they win. Although I mostly blame Kyle Gallner for selling the line, the wretch.

I know! A Kinks cover and a Paul Westerberg song? Heaven.

The bass line was devastating enough, but the way they arranged it so "she is gone" was playing as they burst into the hotel room looking for Mac very nearly gave me a heart attack. I *knew* they weren't going to kill Mac for any number of reasons, including that it's soooo much more painful this way (are they not the very Kings of Comedy?), but it still very nearly gave me a heart attack. It would be nice to be able to listen to The Kinks again someday without having flashbacks, *Rob*.

It's gotta be something that either threatens the life or limb of someone they care about, or enough money to seriously change their entire quality of life.

Hmmm. In true "how much wood could a woodchuck chuck" fashion, I have to wonder how much money it would take to get Keith Mars to ditch his daughter, who has just gone through a major trauma*, at the airport. How big a briefcase would it take to hold $8 million, and how fast could Kendall get a chunk of that? If it's the former, who would Keith care about that much? Veronica, certainly. And...? Lianne? Ech. Alicia? Why make her a major plot point? Logan, via Veronica caring about him? Wallace via Veronica, Alicia, and Keith's own relationship with him? Is there really anyone else? On the other hand, I might be able to buy Keith leaping to the rescue of anyone in imminent danger. I'm...intrigued. I think RT has said Charisma won't be a regular next season :turns around three times, spits:, but their budget is so tiny that this isn't really surprising, and it doesn't mean they couldn't have her back in a recurring role. Long live Kendall!

And while I remain convinced that Cassidy didn't intentionally bring down his father or kill Curly Moran (at least not the way Veronica imagined he did), and while I am still teetering on the rape issue, and while Aaron's confession seems to seal up the Lilly Kane murder, you bring up the excellent point that he might be responsible for every other crime that ever took place on this show. Beaver stole Granny Sajak's car and ran over Harry's dog! Although he did not always look shady doing so, with icon presented as evidence.

*you know, this makes me wonder. I've always been convinced that V never told Keith about the rape (I think there's actual text for this at some point, although I'm not sure any of it comes after she figures out what happened in ATttD). I was kind of surprised it didn't come up at Aaron's trial (presumably Lamb never filed a report of her visit to the Wizard). So has she told Keith now?
( 38 comments — Leave a comment )

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